And why it might just help him win the election.
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But the audience ofFlagrantand its cohort of male-dominated podcasts should not be so casually mocked.
In contrast, Von listens.
But his guilelessness does lead to him being open to conspiracy theories and lazy stereotypes.
Still, while they differ stylistically, both Schulz and Vons shows have found massive success.
When we talk about right-wing comedy, people will ask, Are they really right wing?
says communications professor Matt Sienkiewicz.
And we say, We dont mean their politics necessarily, but theyre tying into a right-wing media sphere.
Sienkiewicz has been studying this thread of comedy for years with his colleague and fellow professor Nick Marx.
Nick Marx:Young men are a deficiency of the Harris campaign and a strength of Trump.
Hes hammering that strength.
And its not just limited to comedians.
These hosts often refer to themselves as moderate or independent.
How do you reconcile this?M.S.
It is a demographic play.
Its a way to court a certain audience, and Rogans been doing this for a long time.
Rogan was a Bernie guy in 2020 and then when that ended he became a Trump guy.
N.M.:I just read it as being attracted to anti-Establishment figures, first and foremost.
What did you think of the interviews themselves?N.M.
:What stood out is bothFlagrantand Theo led off with questions about Trumps sons and role as a father.
One thing that jumped out was how much theFlagranthosts laughed, both with and arguably at Trump.M.S.
:They want to say that Trump is funny.
That does not mean that he is crafting jokes, but they like how he shoots from the hip.
N.M.:I made the connection between what those shows were doing and whatGutfeld!successfully did.
:Did you watchTrumpsGutfeld!appearance?
Gutfelds a professional comedian, in that hes got jokes you would expect in a late-night show.
Thats a Johnny Carson joke.
These guys are not doing that so much.
Theo Von is definitely not doing that.
But by making him seem like less of a threat, it makes him seem more moderate.
Just a stupid misogynist joke tossed in there to say, Hey, were just boys hanging out!
Those are the moments that tie politics into this thing.
How would you differentiate Theo Von from theFlagrantguys, both in general and how they approached Trump?M.S.
But thats his thing.
And then Trump says, Yeah?
Its like this bizarro anti-comedy.
It doesnt seem like hes reaching for the joke about the bad woman driver.
Hes not reaching for some edgy joke about Barron getting women pregnant.
the sort of childlike questions you might have about politics that I assume mirror the mind-set of his listenership.
And these podcasts are the longform, rambling, hour-and-a-half episodes.Roganepisodes push into the four-hour territory.
And for their male audience, it also plays into the grievances with identity-driven politics today.
Theo Von said he would love to have Kamala Harris on.
Do you think she should do it?M.S.
:Lets say yes.
N.M.:Yeah, me too.
:Hes a remarkable know-nothing, but hes a fair voice in that sense.
He did not, unlikeFlagrant, reach for these low-hanging-fruit jokes.
If she thinks she can do a good job, she should do it.
N.M.:Tim Walz should go on Theo Von!
Why is he not out there showing how Midwestern and funny he is?
But Walz is such a likable person that he seems like a natural fit, especially for Vons show.
In your book, you describe this cohort as the legions of libertarian podcasters.
How have you seen the politics of this group evolve into where Theo and Schulz are now?M.S.
:Schulz is drafting off of the sensibility of the libertarian gang, but at a remove.
The more intentional parts of this movement Dave Smith, the Skanks, et al.
attempt to really closely connect offensive speech with the virtue of free speech.
Von … is just so committed to not having an affirmative set of information and beliefs.
He ties in a little through his Ill ask anyone anything ethic.
However, even just by being critical of things like drug use, he creates a fundamentally different sensibility.
How does that lead to Trump?M.S.
:There has been a sort of testing with Rogan putting on voices that are a little bit different.
That is A/B testing of what plays better.
It also has to do with perceptions of the mainstream media.
Even if youre talking to a presidential candidate.
Do you think these appearances could have an impact politically?M.S.
:The traditional way of getting messages out and driving people to vote doesnt seem to be working.
That doesnt mean that this one will, but its different.
The targeting of podcasting is perfectly geared for this.
And thats what comedy does.
What do you think of the liberals who were on Twitter dunking on these appearances?M.S.
Also, when it comes to comedy criticism, go watch a whole episode ofColbert.Theres hits and misses.
