Finally, with3 Body Problem, the actor plays someone like himself.
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I was sick of allowing someone else to have agency over my dreams.
I need good scripts.
In junior high school, you dont see color, do you?
When you grow up with people, they dont see that.
They just see each other.
And then that smattering of racism rears its ugly head.
With racism, its like a whack-a-mole.
They just pop up.
You dont know whos going to walk in.And its like that in life as well.
I did a long stint working in family takeaways.
Your mum is like, They know where we live, we dont know where they live.
Just take the money.
You know those Chinese supermarket calendars?
I would lift that to the side and smack the wall in frustration.
My brother would as well.
There was an indentation in that wall because that was our way of venting and then carry on working.
Most of my weekends were like that.
After I turned 17, I got a job as a glass collector in Manchester.
I needed to get out of the takeaway.
And then it was a nightclub called Apple Jacks.
And then I was a Champagne waiter.
It was very, very friendly.
Manchester was a real bedrock for me and I miss it like crazy.
Its dopamine hits you collect from being in a community.
Id see someone at the bar and its like, How are you doing?
Do you want a Long Island iced tea?
And everything was gratis because everyone was in the same boat.
There was something saying,Theres a real sense of play about you.
He gave me this monologue fromEastby Steven Berkoff.
I did this piece, and then, All right, you start in September.
That was my feast: contemporary dance, mime.The Maids, in Spanish.Ken Campbellwould play there.
There was a great theater company called Kaboodle that put on an amazing performance ofA View From the Bridge.
It always struck me though, fringe the idea of being on the cusp of something.
They always want you to be a lawyer or a doctor.
But I found a window.
I said, My brothers didnt get a proper job until they were 24.
Give me three years and if I dont make it, Ill do whatever you want.
And I had him by the lychees.
I didnt go to drama school.
I thought,I will give myself three years and not be worried about what happens.
Its all gentrified now, a shopping mall, but it was once a very old building.
It had this old wood smell.
You do two weeks a year representing 20 actors, so I got to learn about the business.
I dont know if you know a band calledTake That?
Oh yeah, Im familiar.Back in the day, one of their early managers ran a modeling agency.
We used to share casting information theyd photocopy it and then wed have it as well.
And hed get teary-eyed because someone actually gave a shit about him.
It brought out my entrepreneurial side.
It taught me what to do with momentum: Look what youve created.
Now, where does it go?
Lets put it somewhere.
When youre young, youve got so much enthusiasm.
I had a constant motor running in me for years.
The idea of celebrating your success, especially in England, is … its not like that, really.
And you are already at a disadvantage, being this Asian actor trying to fight for his own identity.
The rest of the co-op didnt take me seriously when I told them to take on so-and-so guy.
Some people got very defensive: He looks too much like me.
It was a fear element.
I tried to get them an artist who later signed a million-pound contract deal.
They missed that deal.
I spent the best part of three years there.
The key shift was that I needed to get a London agent.
It was like,Okay, were only getting a couple of lines here.
They would only see the actors in London.
I said, Casting directors are not seeing me for that no more.
Put me down for the young medic.
Then I submitted myself and got the thing.
I was like, You nearly lost me two grand there.
We could only go so far being in a co-operative.
You needed to get to London.
And you moved to London.
What year was it?Yeah, 1996.
I got this job,The Letter.
Murder-mystery kind of thing she fired six gunshots.
I played the solicitors clerk.
It was a great role.
But hey, it was 4,000 pounds.
That was the beginning of everything for me, for what Ive always done: Take the better role.
That got me ten major reviews in the broadsheets.
Thats a possible ticket to meet 20 of these London agents.
Ian McKellen came to see it.
He said, [does McKellens voice] Youre from Salford, Im from Bolton.
Would you like a Guinness?
We sat down for a pint.
He said, What are you doing?
I said, Im actually trying to find an agent.
He said, If my name means anything, tell them Sir Ian McKellen recommended that they see him.
So now I had ten amazing broadsheets reviews, a recommendation from Sir Ian McKellen.
Off it went, 20 applications I sent.
You would think that would warrant a meeting.
But I got three callbacks.
No matter how hard you tried, this is what the business is like.
I met with one agent and he went, Would you like to doMiss Saigon?
I went, No.
And then he walked out the room, brought out a new agent and went, This is John.
Hes going to be with you.
And I did ten years with him.
It had ups and downs.
Ive played them all.
you might play the white parts.
I turned the seventh one down.
I was all gangstered out.
Working as an actor whos from the global majority, its difficult.
You are balancing your rent.
You have to live.
There isnt any shame in doing it.
But you have to be brave enough to know when to end the door.
There was a turning point.
I was down in London and nothing was going on.
I got called back to Manchester to audition forPhoenix Nights.
So I got there, waited an hour and 40 minutes, no ones coming out.
I had a flip-out moment.
I wrote down, Thank you.
Best of luck with this, its a great comedy, but you know something?
I am better than this.
I gave it to the girl at reception and said, check that the casting director sees this.
That changed the course of my life.
How rude to just not acknowledge you for an hour and 40!
I said, John, Ive had enough.
Thats it, Im done.
Hes like, Look, a scripts just come in.
I say, What is it?
Its an illegal immigrant I said, Fuck off.
He goes, c’mon just read it.
And it was the script forDirty Pretty Things.
I sat down and read it, and I got emotional because I hadnt read apartfor a long time.
I had either been a facilitator, a baton passer, a spare carrier, an information giver.
This character, hes fully formed.
John says, Stephen wants to meet you.
And that was it.
The funny thing is, my mate did a workshop with that casting director.
She talks to actors about the business, and she mentioned it.
And my mate was laughing.
He said, I knew it was you.
You got an award for that.Yeah, the Independent Film Awards.
Did that film change things for you?This is whats interesting, isnt it?
With agents, in general, everyones a lottery number: Oh, Ive got three balls on him.
Ive got four on him.
Its really hard to allow someone to fully take over your career when we are at such a disadvantage.
I was probablythe first Asian actor ever voted for that nomination or the first Salford actor, more importantly.
A few things happened after that, but still it was just more bobbing.
Theyve only seen what theyve perceived and absorbed.
We need more Asians in casting.
We need more Asians everywhere, up and down the ladder.
Hes going, Echo 1, Echo 1.
Thats show business for you.
Cut to later when I was doing a film calledOn a Clear Daywith Brenda Blethyn and Peter Mullan.
Billy Boyd was in it, and Jamie Sives.
Were all in the wings.
Robert Redford had previously done a film with Brenda Blethyn and was going to announce us.
Hes going up and down the line saying hello to everybody.
Then he shakes my hand.
He looks at me and he goes, You got a bigger part this time!
And everyones looking at me going, How the fuck do you know Robert Redford?
I said, We go way back.
What was that experience like?It was a wonderful job.
You had a young Chris Evans, Cliff Curtis, Troy Garity.
Danny Boyle is just a joy to work with.
Hes from a theater background like me.
We had four or five weeks rehearsal we all lived together.
We had lectures with Brian Cox, an astrophysicist.
Boyle created this sense that it was a level playing field.
We were all the same, but we were the chosen team.
Shes the big sister.
And shell be like, Come on.
Come and have something sweet down at the Dorchester.
Three years in a cooperative.
Ten years with a London agent, and then seven years with the agent I left to represent myself.
But if theyre only calling you when they need the Asian, theyre not really working for you.
Was it difficult to learn how to negotiate a contract?
I told them, Look, I cant do this.
I did say, Hey, look, I cant do it.
Then I looked at the weekend and went, Okay, I dont have any money here.
What have I done?
And you took the job?Yeah, I took the job.
At least you’re able to fight the battles, cant you?
Well, the greatest one that came up after that was two leads.
The other one wasChimerica.
Were those among the first offers you got after you went on your own?Yes.
They overlapped by a week.
Now its Wong and Only Management.
I said, Im going to do both, and youre both going to have to work it out.
And I managed to convince them to move the dates.
Were you scared?No.
I didnt care anymore.
Both of these roles were amazing, and I wanted to do both.
They allowed the space for me to do it.
I hardly had any time, I had one day off.
I felt like a proper artist, like Im just the actor I wanted to be.
I proved to myself that I could be a lead.
The other play,Chimerica, won five Olivier Awards.
Then I got Kublai Khan.
But they were always going to come to me anyway.
Again, the Asian role.
Marco Polowas this huge opportunity.
It was Netflixs first big prestige play, as expensive asGame of Thronesaccording to some reports.
Youd be seen by millions of people around the world.
I think it was a role of a lifetime.
And yet, he was the first global world-trade leader.
Then we could have incorporated Middle Eastern stories, all through this hand that had this grip.
But such is where the gaze lies.
That was ten years ago, though, and were shifting slightly now.
You look at Sanada-san and what hes done withShogun.
Nowthatsa story being told.
To what extent have you struggled with that over the course of your career?Massively, massively.
Are things better for Asian actors?
I mean, things likeWarriorhave been amazing.
Im good friends with Andrew Koji.
Things likeEverything Everywhere All at Once.I see all these as shared wins, you know?
Im hatching plans for a production company.
Maybe I can start to green-light films now.
Its time to create your playground, and invite people to play.
Do you mentor other actors?Yeah, I do.
A handful of East Asian actors.
Because Ive been in the jungle just hacking away and there was no one really to look up to.
I always fire up the door.
If anyone ever needs any advice, they can slide in the DMs and Ill have a conversation.
Anybody wed know?Jess Henwick, back in the day.
She doesnt need me at all, mate.
Shes off and away.
I need to pay tribute to a wonderful actor,Tim Pigott-Smith, who sadly passed.
He properly looked after me.
Hed been watching my progress.
Its important to see the young.
Also, be realistic and dont let them go, Oh, I want your path.
No, youre not going to have that, because thats mine.
You are going to make your own journey.
Thats because of the scarcity, but also, thats the system, isnt it?
Without an agent, how do you book a role now?People come to me.
When you are not in an agency, you go back into theSpotlight.
Its a directory for actors.
Anyone can find any actor.
Basically, I signed my own Marvel contract, and that is a credit to me as an agent.
That isnt anyone elses but mine.
Obviously, I signed my own Marvel deal, I signed this3 Body Problemdeal.
But they all peer over at your existing deals.
Im like, Dont worry about those.
Those are what I did as an agent.
Its got to be really scary when youre in the room.
Whats the process like?Fundamentally, its about understanding your worth, isnt it?
That is a form of negotiation.
For me, Im either going to do it or Im not going to do it.
I have to shout-out my lawyer, Bob Wallerstein.
He is utterly fearless.
I dont like to call him my lawyer first; hes my friend who happens to be my lawyer.
I met him through my friendChiwetel Ejiofor.
Strange.Then I go online and I see this character Wong, and I cannot believe theres this character.
You sign it, Cumberbatch signs it.
This is my Salford kind of negotiation, the path of least resistance.
To which he says, and quite rightly so, Look, Ive jumped through many, many hoops.
I dont know if its a good idea.
Now, you and I both know that Wong and Lee is Smith and Jones for Asian people.
You aint kidding no one.
Then I calmly text Chiwetel, I think Im going to need to borrow your lawyer?
And Chiwetel sent, Wong for Wong?
And I replied back, Wong is Wong.
Im just staring into the middle distance.
Therell be the odd tennis ball, some spaceships, moving wind.
Do you have to work out to prep for those scenes?Not for me.
When I got the role, I had absolutely zero prep time.
Have there been discussions about a more prominent role for Wong in the canon?
I was very pleased to be a part of, you know, Have portal, will travel.
Im happy to go wherever they want to go with this character.
Theres no denying hes got some level of popularity.
There is much more scope they could lean into.
The very fact that theyve made Wong Sorcerer Supreme only says where we could go now.
So youre hoping that there could be a standalone TV show or movie for Wong?I dont know.
With Marvel, theyve kind of gone, Okay, weve given you the keys to all the dimensions.
I was like, Okay, well then possibilities are obviously endless.
So I shall see what the universe aligns me with, and leave that to them.
In the meantime, I get to play in this other world with3 Body Problem.
How did you meetDavid Benioff, D.B.
Weiss, and Alexander Woo?
Were you friendly with them before working on this project?No.
Strange in the Multiverse Madness.
I was like, Hang on, hang on.
I was like, Is it a good part?
And theyre like, I cant say anything.
And Im going, Yeah, but is it a good part?
And then their tone went, Its a good part.
I met them on Zoom and I went, This character breakdown sounds a lot like me.
And then Alexander was like, Ah, yeah, well, we copied your Wikipedia page.
Im like, Oh, okay.
This is known as a shoo-in.
With this, theres one, and its you.
Its funny, isnt it?
Youre trying to be cool.
I said, Okay, and that was it.
Now, Ive got the opportunity to play the person who I am authentically.
Sometimes you have to wait 30 years for something.
It can mess with your head a bit.
Now people are like, Oh, I didnt know youre from England.
Or, I thought you were American.
I love to keep them guessing.
Theres a scene in3 Body Problemthat captures what you do particularly well.
Clarence is watching his son playMortal Kombat, and hes just sitting, mulling things over.
Your characters often look like theyre always stewing over something.
Kublai Khan, huge stewer in the face.
Is that a conscious choice?I just play the actions within the scene.
Hes world-weary, and he carries so much.
He is the job, essentially.
He looks into his son and its all kind of insignificant.
I always just play the action.
What are you seeing?
He keeps his eye on the bigger picture.
He accepts this place in the machine.Yes.
People like him are unflappable.
Da Shi, hes his job, and what is this job?
I say, Well, what is an intelligence operative?
What do they do?
Hes like, They find their mark and they never lose them.
They have all devices charged.
Theyve got terrible eating habits.
Nutrition is out of the window.
Because Ive got these soldiers around me.
Because Ive got this fortress around me.
Because someone fears when they hear my name.
Thats what embodies me.
And I just sit there, just relax.
Probably got told off for not saying like or thank you for a while.
Do your kids want to be actors too?No!
What are they into?Legos, yeah.
Their daddys a Lego figure.
I was part of a Lego superhero advent calendar.
I was really chuffed.
Are you parents still around?My dad is, yeah.
I knew you were going to rule the world!
That basically trumped the lawyer and the medic.
