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James Mangold isnt afraid of being thought of as a journeyman director.
And, of course, biographical dramas about musical geniuses.
I watchedA Complete Unknownwith my son the other day.
Hes 15 and didnt know anything about Bob Dylan, but he enjoyed the film greatly.
He was really puzzled by the Newport 65 scenes at the end, however.
Especially if you consider that Johnny Cash played with the Tennessee Three on that same Newport stage.
And on a modern level, what Bob ended up doing would be classified today as soft rock.
The state of the world is just too abstract.
So I felt that I was making a movie about a family.
And like in many families, nothing is ever the same after that Christmas or Thanksgiving.
It was more a pageant of cameos when I came on.
But I really wanted to follow these other people as much as I could.
Because when exploring Bob, youre kind of faced with two choices.
I didnt think anything resembling that was going to work for this movie.
Amadeusimmediately came to mind when Bob says, People keep asking me where the songs come from.
But theyre not asking where the songs come from.
Theyre asking why they didnt come to them.
Why doyoudeserve this gift?
Which is the Salieri question.
But there was a loneliness in him that I wanted to find some way to convey.
Because thatloneliness which was something Dylan actually talked about with me, using that word explains a lot.
If a character loves another character, they want someone to go, I love you.
But when someone says, I love you in a movie, it doesnt mean they love them.
Its still the eyes that are going to tell you whether its sincere or not.
Theres a moment inA Complete Unknownwhen Timmy and Monica sing Blowin in the Wind.
And he looks at her, baffled, and is like, I dont know.
I love how beautifully they fulfilled it and extended it.
Because when she says, This is what?
So, it hurts when he says, I dont know.
Because hes not taking.
And theres almost no one in town who wouldnt take that offering, except this scrawny dude.
She pivots immediately, like, If I cant have him, maybe I can have the song.
Something Ive noticed with your films is that they always turn on two very different characters colliding.
A series of pairs.
I think all politics is local.
Theres a family to Russells gang.
Hes weary of feeling powerful and autonomous.
The movies Ive remembered all my life, whether American or international, yes, theyre beautifully composed.
Yes, theyre beautifully edited.
Yes, theyre visually striking.
But the movie I remember isThe Wizard of Oz Victor Flemings originalWizard of Oz.
Isnt it crazy that we have to qualify that now?Yeah, right?
But that had a huge influence on me.Girl, Interruptedis effectively a version ofWizard of Oz.
But its built on character the depressed adolescent young woman that is Dorothy and onward.
It was no different from a teenager going, I want to be an astronaut or a football player.
It seemed like an impossible dream, of course, but all things start at the impossible stage.
All that commingled withRaiders of the Lost ArkandStar WarsandSugarland ExpressandClose EncountersandNetworkandAll the Presidents Men.
You started your career at Disney, decades ago.
I ended up graduating in June 1985 and having a writer-director deal at Disney by July.
Eisner and Katzenberg had just taken over Disney and wanted to populate their campus with young filmmakers.
Chris Carter was there, and Phil Joanou, and others.
I pitched themJames and the Giant Peach, I pitched themStuart Little.
But I had their mandate wrong.
They just wanted me to make the kind of movies they had made at Paramount.
I mean, youre talking about a kid.
So, it was impossible for me to assert a voice.
They assigned me to write an animated feature for them, which at that time wasnt even their focus.
It was a glorious experience, but I sensed that it wasnt going to work.
I started to become so disillusioned with the world of filmmaking.
I tried to adapt Richard FordsThe Sportswriter.
I tried to write my own novel, but I could find no purchase anywhere.
What was the biggest thing you learned at Columbia?Screenwriting.
Id gotten involved in filmmaking because I was lonely.
The act of writing was a chore I had to complete to have something to shoot.
Id read all the screenwriting books but was deeply uninspired by the plot-driven way to chart a movie.
I had a masters class in directing with Milos.
He asked me, Well, what are you going to direct?
I go, I dont have anything.
Im going to write a movie.
And because he was eminently cool, he was like, Okay.
Well, whats the movie about?
I said, A really fat guy whos invisible.
And he goes, Well, thats not a story, thats just an idea.
He gave me his address in Connecticut: Start writing it.
Send me 20 pages a week.
And he added, Just try and not make it so late.
It shouldnt be on page 47.
It was the first time I had someone sculpting instead of prescribing how a movie could get made.
Press the red button, then hit this.
Then the drawer will open.
And Liv was going, Okay this.
And shes like, No, you have to hit that first.
A whole page of just this lesson on how to use an old cash register.
Milos circled the whole page, and he came in and was like, I love this page.
I just feel a slice of human life that I recognize here.
If you write in that space that is real drama will happen.
Drama is, of course, already happening.
You have a middle-aged waitress and a brand-new, very pretty one whos arrived to work there.
Theres innate tension in the scene.
What I am much more ambivalent about is plot.
I cant do an outline.
One was coming upon the Woody Guthrie song, So Long, Its Been Good to Know Yuh.
So, youre still making westerns, apparently.Honestly, yes!
Im not so sure that thats not what Bob is doing, singing the ballads he does.
Genre and real life are not mutually exclusive.
This is a young man dreaming that he came from something more romantic and sexy and interesting.
You went from dreaming about Spielberg movies to collaborating on one with him.
You couldnt ignore it.
But also the response was two or threefold.
Every Indiana Jones movie features a significant female protagonist who sometimes bails Indy out of trouble.
But the audience responses werent at all lackluster.
It just had a challenging commercial response.
So I was going to have to be off for at least two years from the Dylan project.
Harrison I had actually known for a while, and hed been following my work.
The same filmmaker who madeClose Encountersalso madeMunichandTintinandJaws, which is essentially a horror adventure, andSchindlers List.
For me, it was a deeply personal chance for me to collaborate with these heroes of mine.
AndTemple of Doomis more of a pulpy EC Comics version of Indiana Jones.
And thenLast Crusadebecomes a completely different thing.
Its a father-son movie against the clock and is much more a screwball comedy.
And that goes along with the beloved IP territory.
At the time, there was a great deal of anxiety about it.
Some people will be upset no matter what.
And thats part of being a fan.
I cant take that away from them.
I think even Kevin Feige would say that.
Its just the way they make movies over there.
Which brings us back to Dylan.
There have been other Bob Dylan movies, some very good ones by some heavy hitters.
There are these cliche observations about Bob: Bob the mysterious enigma, Bob the playful provocateur.
This is just what he is.
So he leaned into it harder.
Its not that it is empty, but it doesnt fill any hole.
It isnt what he was seeking.
The song itself, it seemed to me, is what hes seeking.
Fifty-five records of music entirely written by himself.
Even within the context of the movie, I think Timmy sings 26 songs in the movie.
These are all, in a sense, monologues.
I think it is that he refuses that kind of classic Heres my childhood trauma thing.
But he is also less explicit in his lyrics than a lot of others.
His songs became so influential not only because theyre quite beautiful but also because theyre extremely inclusive.
The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind.
Well, that doesnt exclude anyones point of view.
Hes not really taking a position like Phil Ochs might.
Hes holding open all doors.
The answers are up to us.
