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English filmmaker Ken Loach is 87 and has been directing for almost 60 years.
I think its better to just go out with this one.
Those elements come into focus inThe Old Oaks story about pub owner TJ Ballantyne (Dave Turner).
How didThe Old Oakenter your life?Through Paul Laverty: writer, friend, comrade.
We see the world through the same eyes and laugh together, get angry together.
And weve done two films in the Northeast of England, which is a very special region.
Nothing in its place.
So all the consequences of the neoliberal economic program, you might see there, very visibly.
And nowhere more visibly than in the old mining-pit villages, because theyre in the countryside.
Its a pit, with apithead, and the cottages around it, and then trees and fields.
And when a pit closes, as they all have closed, theres nothing.
Shops close, local infrastructure collapses.
Paul heard about the arrival in these areas of refugees from the Syrian War.
They were left to deal with it all, with little warning and little funding.
I think thats very important, because racism comes fromsomewhere.
Theres often a justice in their discontent at the beginning.
So that abandonment leaves them angry and bitter and discontented and alienated.
They say, Look, we have got nothing.
But then it transforms into We dont like them, we dont like their food, go away.
And that turns into racism.
They welcomed people from across the world who came and stayed with them and gave them hospitality.
So within very recent memory, theres an example of how those two currents struggle to make a connection.
So its a useful tool for the right wing.
And our press is racist over here.
Very discreet, in a very British way, but racist.
Our politicians are racist.
There are clear racists in Parliament.
And there are all these far-right groups who hold meetings and get big crowds.
Lets see the soil in which racism grows and just see it emerge.
I think thats better than having some outside person saying, Come on!
But wealth is created by the working class.
We dont need the exploiters; the exploiters need someone to exploit for their profits.
The roundness of their characters is what I think we all enjoy those of us who make the films.
A number of people would just say to us, Why not tell a story about the ruling class?
Lets see what theyre up to.
But I couldnt do it.
Its not as if the rest of the entertainment industry doesnt have that covered!
[Laughs] No, youre right.
I think most filmmakers dont … it doesntattractthem somehow.
I mean, semi-commercial filmmakers.
Is that what you are?
Semi-commercial?Were very, very cheap.
We make tiny, tiny films in terms of finance.
I think doing commercial films takes you into another realm.
You know, we travel on buses, we jump on an ordinary train.
What do you want a caravan for?
Just knock around with thesparks.
Youre part of the same world, you know?
Sit around with the people who are called extras in the business.
Terrible name: Wed never call them that.
Its sort of insulting somehow.
You know, stand in the crowd at a football game and be part of the gang.
Its irreconcilable, and that is the struggle.
You are on one side or the other, whether you want to be or not.
Theres a core audience for them.
Its not huge, but there is a core audience.
Based on that core audience, that is the budget we get to spend.
Theyve gotten more expensive over the decades.
We shoot for six weeks.
Obviously, you get full union rates.
You cant undercut the union rates!
You wouldnt be much of a lefty if you did!
[Laughs] Many of the team are people who have worked with us for 30 years.
So you have to pay accordingly, and you cant replace any of them, because theyre brilliant.
So its not done on the cheap, and we acknowledge that.
But the money is all on the screen, you know?
The bigger the name attached to the movie, the less freedom you generally have.
it’s crucial that you have freedom.
The only limits on films like ours are your imagination and organizing ability and discipline.
I mean, Im touching wood, but we stick to the schedule.
The last day on this one was a hell of a day, but we got it done.
And it rained in the middle!
[Laughs] And so it was a hell of a day.
Theres no, Never mind, well come back tomorrow.
That pressure hangs on what you do, it hangs on your commitment, and it focuses your concentration.
The fact that youcare.
And we were amazing!
Her family had been through absolute traumas in Syria.
Many people who left Syria have family members who have been tortured, treated horrendously.
Many have lost close family members, relatives who died or were killed.
And I thought,Ebla has seen everything.
Shell be there, but it [the scene] wont touch her.
Theres such generosity in that.
I found it really touching.
Whats your system with those kinds of performers?First, theres quite a long process of auditioning.
You have to do all thatbeforetheyre cast.
Thats always the tricky part of the balance for me: trying to make Pauls words sound liketheirwords.
Do documentary values influence your fiction films?Not at all.
Its the other way around.
I started in fiction and Ive done comparatively few documentaries.
Ive always done fiction, really.
Then where does the documentary feeling in your movies come from?Trial and error.
Its got to feel like this is just happening atthismoment.
You have to believe in that, in the idea of them finding the words, you know?
You keep it simple.
Because they are the revolutionary class, to use the old language of politics.
Thats where the power is.
They are the most important class.
The viewer is there with the characters.
Theyre just in the corner of the room.
Like a sympathetic friend, you know?
Not an anthropologist looking down from afar.
The characters are not in a glass case, pinned to a board like a bug, you know?
But you do that as a human presence.
You cant do that if the cameras on the floor.
You dont do it if the cameras up on the ceiling.
Whose point of view is that?
Often the camera is sitting onthe bonnetof the car.
Who the hell is sitting on the bonnet to take that shot?
But then I thought,This is silly.
No wonder its a gimmick.
Thats not a human position.
So wheres the human position?
In the back seat.
You want to see their eyes?
Fine, use a driving mirror or get around the side just behind the drivers head.
A stupid camera position can destroy the reality of the performance youre observing.
Lens like a human eye.
No great wide-angle lens and no extreme telephoto effects.
Dont intervene in an actors space, you know?
Ive learned a lot just looking at old paintings.
First thing when you look for a location is Wheres the light?
It isnt about the place.
If the light doesnt work, we neednt see any more of the scene.
Its not only useful for lighting performers, its just immensely beautiful for shots.
Bad cutting can destroy a sense of reality.
What is bad cutting?Cutting that tells you whats next.
So theres got to be a reason to cut.
Sorry that Im going on and on about this!
No, no, its great.
So dont telegraph it.
Maybe you cut to the person speaking after somebody else looks at them.
Wherever you eye would go if you were in that room is where you generally want to cut.
Whats the difference between a technically competent film and one that seems to have a life force?Everything.
I mean, in most films, every craft is practiced at a high level.
Theyre all brilliant, everyone involved.
But too often, they all work individually.
They are not driven by a common understanding of a central aesthetic.
Thats whats important, I think.
Well, I dont know if thats good or bad!
I think the point of any artistic job is that it has to be coherent.
And filmmaking is collective because so many trades are involved.
Thats a big part of the directors job.
Design is critical as well.
when you obtain a splash of red in one place on the screen, your eye goes there.
You know the old saying, Content dictates form?
Its a simple thing, but I think its true.
Youve never been afraid of bleakness, butThe Old Oakis not a bleak film.
Why didnt you make your final film a punch in the heart?
Leave people haunted and disturbed?Because I think hope is political, really.
Its not cross your fingers or sending a letter to Father Christmas.
If we dont have some confidence in something, then the planet is doomed!
[Laughs] That sense of hope is very important.
But you have to justify it.
You justify it with solidarity.
We share the same objectives, the same needs.
We share everything, really.
All we need to do to achieve our requirements is to stand together.
Its a simple adage from the miners strike: You eat together, you sing together.
The questions that are much more difficult are, How do you organize this?
Where is the leadership?
But you have to begin with solidarity.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.The Old Oakis now playing in theaters nationally in select markets.
