Save this article to read it later.
Find this story in your accountsSaved for Latersection.
But fans had waited four years to see this unlikely superhero film.
What was 15 more minutes?
At first, Drew set out to remixTodd PhillipssJokeras a stir-crazy lockdowngoof and a spoof.
How did this grow from a bit into … a joke that I took too far?
On some level, I understand it.
We live in very reactionary times.
I got called transphobic on Twitter the other day.
Everybodys emotional and upset.
Thats why I made this movie.
But he had just made a billion dollars making a comic-book movie thatwasa comedy, becauseJoker isa dark comedy.
Like many things in my life at that point, this was birthed on Twitter.
Bri said, I will only watch this guys movie if Vera Drew does her re-edit of it.
Im autistic and dont get sarcasm, so I took it very seriously.
But it was becoming more of a mixed-media project.
I was able to explore my femininity and my queer expression in a very safe way.
Ive also had the chance to work for every alternative comedy genius there is.
My earliest memories are wanting to make films.
Ive wanted to be a filmmaker my entire life.
During pre-vaxx 2020 COVID, it really was like,Is the world just fucking ending?
So I went back to Bri and said, You got me into this mess.
I need you to help me write this, because I have a story I want to tell.
Im confused about the tone of the scene.
I dont know if youre being sincere, or if youre making fun of what we wrote.
And Id always say, This is just what felt right for me.
What if viewers can decide for themselves if its sincere or sweet or a shit post or ironic?
I wanted to go out of my way to do that in every single frame of this movie.
The movie breaks other rules, too.
People will turn it off.
On one level, Sacha made me a way better editor.
I evolved from being that restrained.
But going into this, I decided,Im going to specifically break Sachas rule.
I am going to load the frame with jokes.
It really is such a joke-dense movie.
Do you have any gags youre particularly proud of?Theres an arc that Im very proud of.
I need you to make me the Riddler.
In our first draft, the Riddler was just a background character.
Ive written scenes that happen in between my scenes that explain whats happening to him.
Thats one of the things that I cant wait for people to unpack.
Im excited for people to find Easter eggs.
You mentioned this Kevin Smith podcast.
Has he seen the movie yet?
Remember how everybody treated George Lucas when he made the prequels?
Its hard not to just unload my honest feelings about it.
Im hoping he can understand that.
Seeing the early reactions to our movie after TIFF is when this clicked into place for me.
Everybody has mostly been in our corner, particularly the genre filmmaking community.
and This persons a groomer or whatever.
On the note of fandom, can you talk more about what these characters mean to you?
Because the Joker, especially, is used by a lot of people to represent a lot of things.
I dont get it.
I watched that as a trans person and was like,I relate to this so much.
That really resonated with me.
It could be about white disenfranchised males.
Comedy and content were gate-kept in my house.
The Joker has always been a very queer character in the comics.
All of that really resonates with me.
Like, Do you think youre the antichrist or something?
No, I dont.
Theres a lot of that within the Joker story, and within the Harley Quinn story.
Then, it was always about filling in those details of my life.
I had a really shitty abusive ex, so why not make him Jared Letos Joker?
That is one of my favorite Jokers of all time and really embodies that toxicity.
But I see a lot of comic-book movies.
Im obsessed with Batman.
Batmans my favorite person.
The movie is largely a critique of comedy institutions like Upright Citizens Brigade andSaturday Night Live.
Whats your relationship to these organizations?I started doing comedy really, really young.
When I came to L.A., around 2011 or 2012, was when I actually stopped performing.
The stand-up scene was horrible, and stand-up for me was just an excuse to wear a dress.
But the stand-up scene was very toxic.
Getting into a main-stage cast is this fucking carrot they dangle in front of you.
I went through their training program a little bit, and I was just not fit for that world.
So I moved on from it, and I needed to carve out my own space.
Thats really where Joker starting an illegal comedy theater in the movie comes from.
It really does decide elections.
It normalizes the worst politicians we have, and the worst people.
It goes to show that the woke-culture thing, and the cancel-culture thing, is actually horseshit.
But when its somebody who already has power and recognition in the industry, they can really milk it.
It helps their career.
She took me aside after a class and said, Youre really going to go places.
Youre like a young Andy Dick.
I fucking hate conversations about representation that are just about putting queer people on-camera.
Its so surface level, and its always written very straight.
But I do feel like its changing, especially in the genre-filmmaking space.
Why did you create this role for him?I love David Liebe Hart.
I made a show with him years ago calledI Love Davidthat was basically a David Liebe Hart bio series.
We gave him a small budget and were like, Lets just make the show you want to make.
Every single creative choice that he suggested to me I tried to pull off in some way.
Thats why the show is this tapestry of consciousness and weirdness.
Hes one of the most beautiful human beings Ive ever met.
He and I would have these long, esoteric conversations about consciousness, queerness, and making art.
This guy is a pure artist.
Our bodies are antennas that are right next to each other on the web of infinite consciousness.
So hes always been this kind of Yoda figure for me, both in comedy and in my gender.
I also wanted to have him in this movie because of his status in alternative comedy.
Theres no bigger fan ofTim and Eric Awesome Showthan David Liebe Hart.
Hes a total ham.
He still calls me every day about making shows and stuff.
Its the role of a lifetime, and Im so proud of him.
I could talk about him for a million years.
